Template talk:Same-sex unions

Israel

The dispute at the Israel article affects where we place Israel in this template. (The problem I have is that they're claiming that you can now get married "in" Israel because you can get married in Utah remotely, so we now have SSM in Israel.) No RS that registered SSM there fully counts as marriage. (I don't know if it does or not, though it looks like the rights have increased recently.) — kwami (talk) 23:44, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Utah is not in Israel. Credit to them for a novel use of technology to help people get round bureaucratic nonsense, but it's clearly still a foreign marriage. Jdcooper (talk) 23:50, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

The ref there, which seems well-researched, says that registration of a foreign marriage supplies "all" the rights of marriage (unlike common-law marriage, the other option, which affords only "most" of the rights of marriage). I'll resurrect the old foreign-recognition section of this template. — kwami (talk) 19:43, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Mount Athos

Discuss it here!Naraht (talk) 14:12, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

It is a Greek territory with its own laws. It has even more population than Niue! What's the point of not naming something that is true? --DaddyCell (talk) 20:35, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Sort by continent?

As the list is getting longer, I'm wondering if it would make sense to sort the marriage section of the template by continent (or some other measure). Could link the continents' wikis e.g. Asia and Europe ~Malvoliox (talk | contribs) 16:52, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure that would improve the template, just make it busier and more convoluted. Jdcooper (talk) 00:47, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Where's Nepal?

Where's Nepal? The Supreme Court of Nepal had recently legalized same-sex marriage in the country. 36.76.91.208 (talk) 10:00, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Citation? Last I heard they had yet to issue a ruling, and don't know if the ruling itself would mean legalization. — kwami (talk) 15:40, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Slovakia

I've reviewed this article and I see no evidence of unregistered cohabitation for same-sex couples in Slovakia. The only source it cites is the civil code of the Czechoslovakia era. That civil code doesn't even mention same-sex couples. Here's the most recent report from ILGA-Europe: https://rainbowmap.ilga-europe.org/countries/slovakia/ . You can clearly see that Slovakia has 0.00% points in the category of 'family'. ILGA World database also doesn't mention unregistered cohabitation for same-sex couples in Slovakia. It is also clearly a more reliable and up-to-date source than a sixty-year-old Czechoslovakia civil code. If our WP:RS are inconclusive, it is better to err on the side of caution and not include Slovakia as recognising unregistered cohabitations? In general, Wikipedia leans towards not including information that is not fully supported, rather than including dubious information until it's proven wrong. Cyanmax (talk) 11:29, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

“Recognized” sub section

Is there any need for this special sub-section with a single entry, when that entry (Israel, in this case) is listed in its own section with a footnote anyway? I dislike the idea that any country should be listed twice, and I don’t think in general this sidebar needs to give readers the entire complete and complex legal status at every jurisdiction, when readers can and should be encouraged to go to the article to get the full picture. Maybe you can give me a better idea of your thinking here, @Kwamikagami? — HTGS (talk) 22:11, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

They have marriage but don't perform it. Would we just list it under 'marriage' with a footnote? — kwami (talk) 00:24, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Is “having marriage” not equal to “performing marriage” anymore? I don’t want to be argumentative, but I just can’t see that “recognition of marriage” is really what we’re getting at when we say a place has (“has”) same-sex marriage.

In saying that, I’m not here on a campaign about the politics of the legal question, I actually just want to organize the template in a sensible way; if others agree that recognition without performance is our standard, then yes, I’m happier if Israel is only listed in that one place, even if it is the marriage list. — HTGS (talk) 00:48, 21 September 2024 (UTC) Also I’m always happy when a discussion about Israel doesn’t turn out to be a “discussion about Israel” haha — HTGS (talk) 00:51, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

I removed the 2nd entry for Israel.

Recognizing marriage was never equal to performing marriage. You can be married in Israel, you just have to get married somewhere else, even if by video conference. The only other polities currently like this that I'm aware of are American Indian nations in the US. — kwami (talk) 00:55, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

I don’t generally appreciate edits made while discussion is underway, but I’m surprised to see—on reading Recognition of same-sex unions in Israel properly—that it doesn’t appear that civil unions are any different:

the Knesset passed the Civil Union Law for Citizens with No Religious Affiliation, 2010. The law allows opposite-sex couples, but not same-sex couples, to form a civil union in Israel if they are both registered as officially not belonging to any religion.

So ultimately, the question is: Should Israel be listed under marriage, or under limited recognition? — HTGS (talk) 01:25, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Marriage. The higher tier applies. In countries with both marriage and CU's, we list them under 'marriage'. — kwami (talk) 01:37, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Well sure, I mean, I already knew what your answer was. My point was that it should never have been listed under CU. I would like more input to consider this resolved though. Would you mind if I notified WikiProject:LGBT, Talk:Recognition of same-sex unions in Israel and Talk:Marriage in Israel? — HTGS (talk) 01:59, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Sure.

We set up CUs before the situation with marriage was clarified. I thought there were CU's for SS couples, but no matter now that marriage is so easily accessible (at least if you speak English!) — kwami (talk) 02:58, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, why is English a necessity for Israeli same-sex couples to be married? — HTGS (talk) 03:01, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

You need to call a county clerk in Utah. Good chance they won't have a Hebrew (or Arabic or Russian) speaker there. Unless you want to fly to Greece, but that's no longer easy accessibility.

I don't know if there are other places that will marry non-residents via video call. — kwami (talk) 03:13, 21 September 2024 (UTC)